Adopting the my summary of the children away from Llywelyn Fawr and you may Joanna plus the answers it obtained, I appeared once again from genealogical pages on the subject of Gwladus Ddu. Even though it is genuine, once the numerous genealogists explain, one to regarding the absence of specified facts somehow, the newest label of your mother out of Gwladus Ddu must remain ‘unknown’, I found no reason to changes my personal completion that their particular mother is Joanna rather than Tangwystyl.

She left no issue from the Alexander II

You to definitely next resource about their pupils ‘s the following the abstract regarding ‘Leaders and Queens regarding Britain’ an authoritative book, published by Oxford University Press, page 106:

‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, young man off Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and you can Marared, daughter off Madog ap Maredudd; acc. east Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate child out-of Queen John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; passed away eleven April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’

Earliest, i’d like to pay tribute to Sharon. Their unique research to have ‘HBD’, ‘Falls the newest Shadow’ and hot girls from Ipatinga you can ‘The Reckoning’, accomplished through to the advent of the web, are it is outstanding. About everything this lady has printed in you to definitely trilogy really stands romantic test today.

To show that it’s besides me that believes so, allow me to price you to genealogist that is a beneficial fan off Sharon: “I am extremely partial to Sharon Kay Penman’s courses. While they commonly purely biographical, I feel hotter counting on their work to ‘submit the fresh blanks’ (considering the number of lookup she obviously added to their unique books), than in actually citing some genealogical source which i attended round the within my lookup (I’m sure we-all run into offer by doing this). To whoever has not even comprehend their performs, I recommend it very very, especially if you need an end up being for what lifestyle try particularly 800 years ago.”

After the concerns posed of the Beth, Suzanne and Exotic specifically, We set about contrasting the newest name away from Joanna’s mother (labeled hereafter, to have ease of reference given that ‘Clemence’ maybe not ‘Clementia’) compliment of an event for the so you can-be-king John. After powering up of several blind alleys, primarily compliment of seeking reconcile the latest chronology of one to the other, I’ve paid about what uses. I do not say that what i have written was decisive in every shape or means, plus the facts are we will likely never be yes from their identity.

(a) The fresh new illegitimate Joanna, child away from “Clemence,” is undoubtedly created regarding wedlock –– as well as ended up of the Honorius III’s decree declaring their unique legitimate when you look at the April 1226, no matter if instead prejudice towards the king otherwise arena of The united kingdomt (i.e., providing their particular no claim compared to that throne). The new decree, which has been transcribed on completely new, unpublished Check in from Honorius III (Reg. Vat. 13, fol. 122 ), says inter alia you to “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de- soluta,” and that, I am told, means “Queen John from The united kingdomt, when solitary , fathered your of the an unmarried lady.”

This task proved to be more advanced than I’d has envision you’ll!

This means Joanna can have started born no after than simply 1189 when John hitched Isabella off Gloucester. Their own mom, “Clemence” was probably French otherwise Norman, as the proof on the patent moves from John’s rule shows that Joan are brought regarding Normandy to England within the December 1203, to arrange to own marriage so you’re able to Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (come across lower than). Joanna died when you look at the Feb 1237.

(b) John’s legitimate daughter Joan, of the Isabella off Angouleme (partnered so you can John within the 1200 during the many years twelve!), came into this world during the Gloucester to the twenty two July 1210 (understand the Tewkesbury Annals on Moves Series, vol. 36.i, p. 59; new Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty-six.iv, p. 399; additionally the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium having John’s Reign, pp. 124, 143). This is the Joan who after that hitched Alexander II out-of Scotland and you will she died in 1238, certain weeks immediately following Joanna (this could be the cause of some of the misunderstandings clear involving the a few women).